‘Wicked’ director Jon M. Chu on his own yellow brick road to Hollywood

There’s a political urgency to director Jon M. Chu’s Wicked that is simultaneously disarming and refreshing. 

The first of a two-part adaptation of the stage musical and novel of the same name, the film is set in the land of Oz and tells the story of Elphaba (Cynthia Erivo), a woman born with unnaturally green skin that leads to her social ostracization, and her friendship and rivalry with Galinda (Ariana Grande). The two meet when they’re enrolled at Shiz University, where Elphaba seeks to control the magical powers she has, hoping to eventually meet Oz (Jeff Goldblum), the ruler of the land who allegedly holds the power to grant people their heart desires. Elphaba eventually realizes that as charismatic as Oz is, he holds no real power and has remained in power by tricking people into thinking he’s omniscient and omnipotent. NPR’s Aisha Harris poignantly compares how this revelation hits differently in light of the recent U.S. election: “The story of a protagonist radicalized by an untalented, hate-fueled leader who thrives off of discrimination couldn’t arrive at a more apt time.” 

Chu is no stranger to imbuing his big-screen adaptations, from Crazy Rich Asians to In the Heights, with spectacle and aplomb, and while Wicked boasts show-stopping set piece after show-stopping set piece, it was important for him not to let the extravaganza get in the way of the film’s emotional core and political message. He spoke with JoySauce about telling fairy tales with a modern twist, utilizing the medium of cinema to expand fan-favorite musical numbers like “Defying Gravity,” and the connection he sees between restaurant work and movie making.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity, and contains mild spoilers for Wicked: Part I.

Zachary Lee: Both Gregory Maguire’s 1995 novel and Stephen Schwartz and Winnie Holzman’s Broadway screenplay are rife with political allegory and commentary, but I’m sure you couldn’t have anticipated the newfound relevancy your film would take on now, post-election.
Jon M. Chu: It takes years to make a project. I’ve been working on both Wicked films for three years and I’ve had three kids in the span of making just this first part. You never know when it will come out so I couldn’t have predicted how it would resonate when people finally got a chance to see it. I trusted in the timelessness of the source material my team and I were working with. 

What’s interesting is that if you look at the release of 1939’s The Wizard of Oz and even the release of this film, they came out at times when the world—in particular, America—was in the midst of transition. Every generation was challenged with these questions: “Who are we going to be in this new world? What kind of citizens will we be and how are we going to treat each other despite our differences?” I think the thing that’s changed now is that we have much clearer pictures of each other. Everyone has a microphone and camera on their phones and we can suddenly be roommates with more people than we previously had capacity for. 

Despite this, it’s also easier than ever to live in our own bubbles and echo chambers. Thinking of Galinda and Elphaba, they’re characters who could ignore each other but ultimately do the hard and uncomfortable act of listening to each other and going through the fire of learning to be in a relationship and friendship. That may not always lead to a happy fairy-tale ending, but I resonate with this idea that every day, we have to choose between whether we’re going to listen and respect each other or not. I’m excited this is coming out of a time where our ability to do that for the other side is being questioned. My hope though, is that every generation prior has risen to the occasion, so I have no doubt this one will do the same. 

ZL: It’s helpful that people have your film as a guide and model. I love the diversity of this cast. After you directed Now You See Me 2, you cited how you came to a point in your career where you were in a position of privilege, particularly when it came to casting. It’s great to see such a diverse cast, from Cynthia Erivo playing Elphaba to actors like Marissa Bode, Michelle Yeoh, and Bowen Yang rounding out the cast.
JMC: It was about showcasing the talent that’s always been there, but maybe hasn’t had the same opportunities to be showcased. My team and I wanted this film to feel like a nod to old-school Hollywood. When you’re trying to create a giant cinematic experience about a timeless story that will hopefully resonate for generations after, it has to reflect the world we live in. There was no compromise on that and we wanted to get the best of the best. 

Another aspect is learning to collaborate with the actors to help the roles take on a life beyond even what I have initially envisioned. If Cynthia Erivo comes in and starts singing Elphaba in a way that has never been done before and her delivery breathes new life to these timeless words, then I’ll honor the direction and change. I don’t think I intentionally approached this as, “Oh we’ve got to diversify,” but more so let’s find the best people to do this.

We needed whoever was playing Madame Morrible to show power and be someone who we would all want to please and study under, but then who at the same time, can become the real wicked witch. Why wouldn’t I want to cast Michelle, who’s demonstrated that range? With someone like Bowen, I was struck by how he took the role of Pfannee, Galinda’s friend, a role that has almost no lines, and yet riffed on it in a way that he makes a strong and memorable impression. For me, if we’re resetting what a fairy tale looks like and what a hero and villain look like, then who plays the characters in this film should reflect that reset and expanded imagination. I think too about Nessarose and how the portrayal of that character by Marissa, who herself understands the nuances of living one’s life in a wheelchair, is so much richer.

ZL: Speaking of expanded detail and depth, there was a flourish you added to “Defying Gravity” that resonated. When we see Elphaba fall from Oz’s tower, Erivo’s Elphaba sees a reflection of her younger self and the two reach out to one another. That made me think of how this was something you could only pull off in the film adaptation. I’d love to hear more about the decision to include Karis Musongole’s young Elphaba there.
JMC: When I split the film into two, I knew I needed to have each part feel like a full movie. Since “Defying Gravity” is a closing number that not only ushers in part two but also has to wrap up what came before, I wanted that scene to mirror the themes of the whole first film; it had to honor the arc of the characters. Elphaba’s struggle is an interior one where she has to protect that inner child and tell her own story rather than have that be dictated by others. She’s wrestling with her self-worth. 

My team and I knew that when she came out the window she rose and said “So if you care to find me / Look to the western sky,” we hadn’t storyboarded the scene where Erivo and Musongole have their moment. At that point, it didn’t feel like the ending of the movie. We realized then that at that point, it’s not about the wizard necessarily. It’s much more about her: What if she’s not ready to fly, or rather, what if she thinks she's not ready to fly? 

That’s where this idea came in that as she’s falling and she’s wrestling with doubt, we’re hearing all these voices and getting flashbacks to these moments earlier in the film where she’s being treated as lesser because of the color of her skin. Then she sees her younger self. Karis was amazing and I didn’t have to direct her in that scene at all; she just reached out her hand to Erivo as if to say “Let’s play.” That was the thing that Elphaba needed at that moment. In that moment, Elphaba needs to not only save herself but also save the little girl within.

ZL: It’s a tricky balancing act to keep audiences looking forward to part two while also feeling satisfied with what they’ve been given. I know you grew up helping out at your parents’ restaurant, Chef Chu’s—
JMC: [Laughs.] Yeah, even right now, there are Wicked posters all over the bar. They’re also selling my book. It’s really funny and lovely. 

ZL: I wonder if you see any connection between growing up with your restaurant background, and how that may have impacted your approach to moviemaking.
JMC: I think there’s a huge parallel between my time in the restaurant and the way I make movies. Every day after school I’d go to my parents’ restaurant and do homework in between helping them out by folding napkins. I always called it a “house of stories” because when people would come in, they’d share stories of their family and my parents would reciprocate by sharing stories of their own. When I’m making a movie, especially something like Wicked, I think back to all the things they instilled in me when I was young, in particular about The Wizard of Oz. I believed that the American dream was real and that there was a yellow brick road with a wizard at the end of it that you had to prove yourself to and that if you did, he would give you your heart’s desire.

Stories like that were super helpful because they helped me be fearless and a bit naïve as I grew up; they allowed me to believe that I could be a filmmaker. The reality is that when you do get into the business and grow up a little bit, you realize it’s not that easy. The road was perhaps never meant for people like you, there’s no wizard “over there” that’s going to change your life and you have to do it yourself, and that all takes training and perseverance. I’ve loved that my road to making Wicked has been a windy one and something I’m grateful to my parents for is this reminder to just keep walking, no matter what happens.

This next generation has different ideas and a different relationship with power; they have cameras in their hands and technology to get their voice out in the world. I’m grateful I get to retell this fairy tale that says “You know what? Maybe happy endings aren’t the point.” The beautiful thing is that life is always a series of “to be continueds” because you always have tomorrow. Even if you’re wicked, there is forgiveness and grace for you still; we just have to keep walking and striving for the bigger thing. That’s the only way we can survive. I hope that people can walk away encouraged by that and imbuing those themes into this project is a way for me to not only connect with my upbringing but also craft a hopeful vision of the world that I want my kids to be brought up in.