The book cover of "Heavenly Tyrant," and a woman in a cow costume, against a gold background.

‘Heavenly Tyrant’ is the aftermath of overthrowing the government

New York Times bestselling author Xiran Jay Zhao on their new book, what makes a successful revolution and encouraging people to read non-fiction (as a fiction writer)

Author Xiran Jay Zhao and their latest book, "Heavenly Tyrant."

Photos courtesy of Xiran Jay Zhao

Words by Samantha Pak

There comes a point in every revolution when you’ve successfully overthrown the government and now it’s your turn to run the country.

But what happens when you’re an 18-year-old peasant with very little education on anything (read: none), let alone how to govern?

That’s the predicament protagonist Wu Zetian finds herself in at the start of Heavenly Tyrant, the long-awaited sequel to Xiran Jay Zhao’s young adult novel and New York Times bestseller, Iron Widow. Fortunately for Zetian, she’s just awakened Qin Zheng, the emperor who unified Huaxia 200 years ago, and he happens to know a thing or two about how to rule a nation. But unfortunately for Zetian, the two of them hate each other and each would happily kill the other if they didn’t actually need them. So together they’ve got to figure out how to get along well enough (at least publicly) to convince the people of Huaxia that their new emperor and empress’s relationship is stable, that they can take care of their constituents, and keep fighting off the Hunduns, the beings their country has been fighting since Qin Zheng’s time—all while secretly plotting together to defeat the gods who have been controlling their planet for centuries. As Zhao puts it, they’re “very, very reluctant allies.”

Although Wu Zetian and Qin Zheng are inspired by China’s first female emperor and first emperor, respectively—along with other characters who have been inspired by real people from Chinese history—Heavenly Tyrant is not historically accurate. It is, after all (among other things), a sci-fi/fantasy novel with giant robots (mechas) piloted by teenagers, fighting in a centuries-long war. “But you know, there are a lot of sci-fi takes on the Roman Empire. This is like that but with Chinese history,” Zhao says.

I recently spoke with Zhao, who lives in Vancouver, British Columbia, about their new book. They also shared what all revolutions have in common, why they decided to speak up about some drama within the publishing world, and more.

This interview has been edited for clarity and length.

An Asian woman in a dinosaur costume stares down at a gray cat in her arms.

For their new book, "Heavenly Tyrant," Xiran Jay Zhao let their readers choose their author photo.

Courtesy of Xiran Jay Zhao

Samantha Pak: Heavenly Tyrant is the sequel to Iron Widow, which came out in 2021. Why did it take so long?
Xiran Jay Zhao: When I sold Iron Widow, it had been rejected by all of the major U.S. publishers that it was sent to. It was a Canadian branch of Penguin Random House that ultimately took a chance on the book. They weren't able to give me a lot of money for it. I did not get a sustainable wage off of that. I had just graduated from university, and it was right into the height of the pandemic. I had been trying to get published for years at this point—kind of neglecting my studies, honestly. I was so focused on writing that I very much half-*ssed my college degree. And then I couldn't go out and get a job. My family, they were like, “So all of these years of writing, and this is all you have to show for it?” So I had to emergency write another book to sell. That was my middle grade book, Zachary Ying and the Dragon Emperor, and it did sell for a substantially bigger amount than Iron Widow.

And then after that, I accidentally blew up on YouTube critiquing Mulan, the 2020 movie. And then for a solid year, honestly, I made more money off of YouTube than writing, because that's just how the publishing industry works. So for the longest time, I couldn't get around to writing the sequel, just because it would not have been financially worth it for me. That is why it's so late. Capitalism, baby!

SP: In Iron Widow, and now Heavenly Tyrant, the main character is named after and inspired by the first Chinese female emperor, but it’s not exactly her life, correct?
XJZ: She has what I imagined to be Empress Wu Zetain’s personality. And I incorporate her life events when I think it will be neat to do so. And because it's a YA and she's 18, obviously I can't replicate everything. For example, she has a daughter, Princess Taiping. And Taiping is in book two, but as a character who's not blood related to her. So that's how I incorporate that aspect without actually making her a mother, because she still has to be a teenage girl.

SP: There are so many books in all age groups, where they save the world, or the revolution works and then it's like “the end.” Whereas this one is very much that, “Oh sh*t!” moment. “Now we have to actually fix things for real,” which I really appreciate because you don't see that that often.
XJZ: Yeah. In this world, it's really easy to win, when you have a gigantic chrysalis, gigantic robot, and you could just literally crush the government. But then what are you going to do? That's what's more interesting to me, as an enthusiastic studier of revolutions. The aftermath is always harder.

SP: How much research went into actually what needs to be done to run a country to make it feel realistic in the book, but not too bogged down with details?
XJZ: When I first started writing the book, not that much, but I did do a lot of research into revolutions and found out the pitfalls. They typically have a pattern. Everybody starts off all very enthusiastic, and like, “Yeah, we're gonna get liberty for ourselves!” But you do not have a real revolution until you get tangled up in like six foreign wars and then a civil war at the same time. If you don't have a civil war, you're not doing a real revolution, because then you're not actually threatening the interests of the powers that be and the rich and powerful. And then, inevitably, no matter how much you say you're all about giving liberty to people, you're gonna have a reign of terror. It just comes with the territory. When you're getting attacked on six fronts at once, and then you're having a civil war, you're gonna have a reign of terror.

SP: Emperor Qin Zheng was this legendary figure from the past, and he's come back and has all these ideals. But what struck me was how he's not outright encouraging the violence, but he's not punishing those who are overly violent.
XJZ: He wasn't like, “Oh, everybody, go and smash up your boss's houses.” But definitely that's what he was going for. For him, he comes back to life and he has a lot of these ideas, but he has zero connection among the government, and he does not have a revolutionary base, So in order to scare the officials and all of the rich people, he deliberately encouraged violence among the people. He basically summons millions of Luigi Mangiones.

SP: How much did you know about these Chinese emperors before starting these books? Did you already have a base knowledge of them?
XJZ: Well, Chinese emperors, I knew everything because I was really obsessed with Chinese history. I fixated on it a few years ago. I basically found out everything. I dug really deep into the first emperor of China, and then also Wu Zetian. And of course, they're the main dynamic in book two. It was a really interesting thought: “What would you do if you put these two together?” Because the first emperor of China, he's such a fascinating historical figure. You just want to study him under a microscope. And I find that is also a very common sentiment for people who have finished reading Heavenly Tyrant. And that's what I'm going for.

SP: You mentioned Taiping, but who are some other new historical figures that you have brought into the story?
XJZ: So there is Wan’er, and she's based off of Shangguan Wan’er, Empress Wu Zetian’s personal secretary. Which is a title that may sound frivolous, but she was actually doing some very important work, drafting edicts and stuff. So she's colloquially known as the female prime minister. I really wanted her to have a big role in book two.

And then there's someone who has a more minor role, Di Renjie, who is one of Zetian’s eunuch pilots. People are gonna be mad that I made him one of them, because Di Renjie is really iconic in Chinese history, and in Chinese media. He's known as the Sherlock Holmes of China. He's very well respected, and he is someone who has a lot of principles. And he was not afraid to go up against Empress Wu when she was doing questionable stuff. So he was that moral compass for her. 

And then there's also this minor character, the prison warden, Lai Junchen, who was famous for being one of Empress Wu's torturers—because she had her own reign of terror. She had to terrorize everybody who thought, “Oh no, you can't rule, you’re a woman.”

SP: What do you hope readers get out of this book?
XJZ: I hope people read more into theory, and read more non fiction books—which is weird to say as a fiction writer. I also don't have any recommendations in English or books about these Chinese historical figures because I read them in Chinese. I have a video about him, and also a two parter about her, with a third part incoming. So come back to YouTube soon!

SP: One of the things I loved about the first book was just how angry Zetian is, and how she acts on that anger. Because that's something women aren't always allowed to do. In this book, she's still angry, but she has so much more to lose now. And so she's like, “I can't just act out on my anger. I actually have to think things through.” She's evolving and growing.
XJZ: It sucks for her, but it's better for Huaxia. “I gotta take care of the people, think about medical stuff and free health care. What is this?”

SP: I know this book just came out, but I can't not ask. Do you know when—I'm putting you on the spot, I admit—
XJZ: Absolutely no clue.

SP: [Laughs.] Fair enough.
XJZ: But with book three, I can tell you something, though. It will be multiple POV. So (Zetian) will no longer be the only POV.

SP: Within the book and publishing social media sphere, you have revealed some scandals with authors, breaking down how white authors have pretended to be BIPOC authors. Why do you do that? Because that's a lot of extra work on top of your day job.
XJZ: That was one time, actually. I didn't set out to become a drama person. That's why later, when people were like, “Oh, my God, this is happening. Please talk about it.” I'm like, “No, I don't want to talk about drama!” I only did that because I was friends with some of the victims.

I had known about it for months, but I held my tongue because the victims wanted me to. But then they just could not get it resolved behind the scenes because the publishing industry was not willing to take it seriously. This is very serious for debut authors. Everybody goes on their Goodreads page. What Cait Corrain did—the thing that spurred me to take action—was up voting all of the (fake) one-star and two-star reviews (she posted), so that the entire first page of (these authors’ pages) just looks like it's all negative.

I have a platform, so I felt the need to protect my friends. I didn’t even name Cait in the initial tweet thread. I have this on record. It did not need to blow up as big as it did. It did not need to go on NBC, on Forbes—come on, it went on Forbes? What is going on?

SP: Outside of the Iron Widow universe, are you working on anything else?
XJZ: I'm working on the sequel to Zachary Ying.

Published on January 20, 2025

Words by Samantha Pak

Samantha Pak (she/her) is an award-winning Cambodian American journalist from the Seattle area and co-editor in chief for JoySauce. She spends more time than she’ll admit shopping for books than actually reading them, and has made it her mission to show others how amazing Southeast Asian people are. Follow her on Twitter at @iam_sammi and on Instagram at @sammi.pak.